Ha, looking at the length of this interview I should probably spare you an introduction for Chaos Inception... But I just want to say that the two full length albums, which this Alabama based band (second this month band from Alabama, which I interviewed! the one before was Ectovoid!) has released are simply amazing. Love them both, but I hope you've read my reviews. Here's a bunch of questions answered by Matt Barnes, a very intelligent and nice guy, who gave some very interesting, sometimes maybe quite controversial for die hard metal maniacs, answers. But that is what defines a good interview. I've read it with a lot of satisfaction, I must say. Definitely it turned out to be one of the very best interviews I've ever done. Read it please, leave some comments if you want and listen to Chaos Inception. Oh, by the way Matt... I cannot listen to "Hell Awaits"??? Hmm, I hope you're not serious on that hehehehehe!
In the beginning there was chaos… but for you there was Fleshtized. Would you mind coming back for a while to this band and tell something more about this death metal squadron. I remember that their only full length “Here Among Thorns” was fast and brutal as hell, with intensity similar to Diabolic and other bands like that. What do you think of this LP nowadays and why have Fleshtized split up?
Fleshtized were pretty much the best death metal band in Alabama in the early 2000s. Their musicianship couldn't be touched. I think back in the day members, Gary, Garth Lovvorn, and Casey Robertson, had several offers to join other bands - Nile, Angel Corpse, and Incantation, to name a few. I think even Decrepit Birth. Anyways, I wasn't in the band during the heyday, but joined at a later time. Judging from the stories I heard, the problem was the clash of personalities. All the guys get along now, now that they are older and more mature, yet they couldn't keep the band going. The album is a forgotten classic. I know that there have been more repressings of the album, which have kept it in circulation, though the band has never seen a dime from it. When I was in the band there were more lineup difficulties, this time being all the members except for Gary and I lived in different states. So when we decided to do Chaos Inception, the idea was to get some local guys and do something in the same vein, yet without having to live up to the legacy of Fleshtized. I didn't want to get boxed in to trying to write songs like Fleshtized or trying to play solos like Casey Robertson, who was an insane shredder, way beyond my comprehension. He had that Rusty Cooley / Paul Gilbert style, extremely fast, precise, and alien sounding. I play more traditionally, based on my influences and to be honest, I just can't play that fast. I've tried, only to have my fingers and wrists so sore that I couldn't play for a week or so.
It took few years, before you and Gary White formed Chaos Inception. Weren’t you afraid to start everything from the scratch, maybe it would be better to join an already respected band, like you did when you recently joined Monstrosity? How have you found the rest of Chaos Inception members? Were they your obvious choices or matter of coincidence?
There is a problem with joining an already established band, and that is writing in an already established style. Since I knew I was going to write most of the Chaos Inception material, I wanted a clean slate. The rest of the guys were nearly the only people available in the area, though they have worked out beautifully. Chris White, our vocalist, was a keyboard player and guitarist for Blood Stained Dusk, though he also did vocals. It was new for
him to be a frontman, and the main vocalist. Cam was a guitarist and drummer for Spinecast, and this was the first time he played bass. But they were our friends from way back, plus they had the right influences. We get asked by some to join the band from time to time, but they always have the wrong influences. Never heard of Kreator? Next!
“Chaos Inception is dedicated to the destruction and recreation of the current death metal paradigm, and a return the true spirit of the Ancient Gods brought to light by the vision quests of its progenitors.” What do you mean by that? What’s so wrong about the nowadays death metal? Personally I feel like this genre is in the best condition since the early 90’s!
Yeah, it's in pretty good shape. Well, you know you need to make a bold statement when you're promoting your own stuff! To be honest, that was written awhile back, when we had no content on our Facebook page. So, the destruction and recreation of the paradigm - no, but of our former band Fleshtized - yes. I find a lot of newer bands have the same production sound and the same vocal style, but that's just mall metal, not underground stuff. The underground is doing fine.
Chaos Inception has never put any demos and you went straight to do a full length album. Was the material for “Collision with Oblivion” all brand new or maybe there were some riffs or fragments, which were intended to be used for Fleshtized?
We recorded a 5 song demo for Fleshtized that "Regicide" was on, fully completed. The other songs on that demo were pretty good too, but they had some Fleshtized in them so we never redid them. We were confident in our skills that we decided to do the album and then shop it as a demo. Luckily, we were signed based off a live show, by Brutalized Records. We did record a version of “Collision with Oblivion” to send to Ricardo, and we ended up redoing it for the album.
As you said, “Collision with Oblivion” was released by Brutalized Productions. I must admit that I’ve never heard of Chaos Inception until Lavadome started to announce your second CD, so I must ask if Brutalized did any good job with promoting your debut? I have a feeling like they screw it up completely or maybe I’m wrong and you’re quite happy with them? I managed to find a second hand copy of “Collision with Oblivion” and buy it for ridiculously low price, which is cool, but is this album available anywhere at all?
I think most of the remaining copies of the first album are at the Deathgasm Records warehouse. Of course, we are getting a lot more press and reviews with this album, working with Jan. I think Brutalized just wasn't as good at reaching a worldwide market. We have many fans and friends in South America thanks to Ricardo and Brutalized so we have nothing negative to say about them. But it does take some investment to get the w
ord out, and perhaps Brutalized fell short on that front. They took a chance on an unknown band, so we give them a lot of thanks for that.
Finally the second album has been released and I must say that “The Abrogation” is just a crusher. I totally enjoyed it; it definitely is one of the best and most intense albums, which I’ve heard lately. Do you feel pleased with the effect you got on it, as well as with the feedback, which this album gets so far?
Yeah, we're excited about it. Some of the novelty has worn off. I was psyched to get some of the good reviews at first, and pissed about the bad ones, but now I don't really read them or pay attention. We are our own worst critics and at the same time, our own biggest fans. I think the first side of “The Abrogation” is flawless, compared to other albums I buy. However, on bad days, I can't even stand to listen to it! It's always been like this with every release I've played on. It's a love / hate thing. It's never exactly what I tried to create out of my imagination. But we are getting closer.
Comparing both albums, “The Abrogation” is definitely more mature, the production and the mix are better, but from the other hand both albums have a lot in common and the second CD is a natural continuation of the debut. How do you feel about the evolution between both full lengths? What are the most obvious things for you, as a musician, that have been improved or developed?
Two years passed and I play guitar every day so I have improved on that front. Some of the leads on “Collision with Oblivion”, I can't even listen to them. What was I thinking?! Mostly I was thinking that I had to play a bunch of notes, whereas on this one I didn't care if there were as many notes - even though there are still a bunch of notes. I improved my guitar tone, which is always a big factor, and I'm always experimenting to improve it even more. In fact, I just got some new speakers in the mail today to put in one of my Mesa cabinets. Other than that, I feel we have an identity as a band, and I think both albums will contain some of our greatest 'hits' when it's all said and done. In actuality though, there were more problems in the studio with “The Abrogation” and we rushed the recording somewhat. But we had more experience this time, and were able to overcome all the difficulties.
Speaking of the title of the album, it’s about the abrogation of what…? Is it about the cancellation of religions and dogmas for instance? Tell me also something about that killer artwork on the front. I must say that it looks very impressive. What idea stands behind it, especially when confronting it with the title of the album?
I think of it as the abrogation of the flesh, because maybe it is a hindrance and the source of sickness and death. But that's just an answer I'd give you at this moment. When you are in the business of kicking ass, there is friendly competition involved. You want your able to destroy the albums of other bands, better known bands, and kick ass that much harder - so it is also the abrogation of the competition. Chris White came up with the title. The bottom line is it sounds like a death metal album, so I thought, sure, why not? Many things on the album, down to the cover, the titles, the band photo, is to indicate to someone what they should expect if they buy the album.
If I saw a CD with songs called “Lunatic Necromancy” and “Scald Command”, I'd be all over it. That's my style, as opposed to a CD with songs like "Walking in the Woods of Transylvania" or "Engorged in Excrement". So, the music itself is what I'm focused on and I'm sorry to disappoint for not having a more profound explanation of that particular title.
Do you think that people still read and care about the lyrics of the bands? I’m asking this, as nowadays many, many people (and I deliberately won’t call them fans) just suck the cocks of mp3, do not collect records anymore and are just fine having the soulless music files. In that case they don’t probably care about the fancy artworks and probably also about the lyrics… But personally I always like the bands, which still care a lot about every detail of their records, because there are some maniacs like myself, who still love to collect records, read the lyrics etc. What’s your opinion on this?
I'm definitely not one of those mp3 guys. I think the cover and the lyrics are important, and I only buy an mp3 of something where the CD would cost me $30 or more. I read band's lyrics, but I can't remember liking many bands lyrics lately, unless it's like Krisiun or Perdition Temple - something totally off the rails. But our lyrics are not so much as to convey deep meanings - I never look to musicians for deep meanings, or political views, and bands that spout that mostly annoy me. I'd rather read a book on those topics, by someone who's done some research. For me the lyrics are more in the sense of an Iron Maiden album, where the music and lyrics fit together. Like “The Rime of the Ancient Mariner”. Nocturnus is an influence here as well. That's why I put titles for my solos. The solos aren't supposed to be wankery, but are supposed to fit the songs, lyrically and musically. I think about what the sound makes me picture, then the lyrics come, and then harmonies and leads match the lyrics and the rest of it. It is just one method of getting more inspiration for songwriting. I don't like MP3s as much because I can't get my Ipod to play the album in order, and I listen to whole albums. My formative years were the time of cassette tapes. So there is an obvious reference to that indicated by the 2 'sides' of our CD as well as the track listing.
Why do you think people still need religions? I mean they keep praying, even though no one has ever answered them. They still believe that god is merciful, even though there’s so much misery and cruelty going on in the world and if everything happens to his will, then it means he’s the most vicious motherfucker ever. Isn’t it weird?
Personally, I think it's because life is hard and the flesh really is weak. Science holds no answers for me on this issue. Science can't tell you what death is or what anything really means - to science death is a flatline on a brain wave or heart monitor and no more, although many have died and have been brought back and have had an experience of something. What's the old saying about there being no athiests in the trenches or on the frontlines? I don't have any answers for anyone. If anyone has questions about the 'problem of evil' I'd refer them to Leibniz and other philosophers, not to “The Abrogation” or metal album's lyrics.
What do you think of the religious fanaticism? With people, who blow themselves up, just to kill some others or whatever, I sometimes wonder where will it all end? Is there a religious war coming, most likely the Islamic nations against the Eastern civilisations?
I hope it doesn't come to that, but I don't think Iran should be allowed to have nuclear capabilities. I've heard some say that the UN or the US shouldn't be the world police and it's none of our business, and the US or other nations have nuclear weapons so why not others, but the fact is, I live in the US, Iran is known to be anti-US and Israel, so why should they be allowed to be armed as equally? If you were at a club, and you knew a guy was going to jump you in the parking lot, would you send a messenger to tell him that you had a knife, and you wouldn't go outside until he armed himself with one, so it would be more fair? It's not a perfect analogy but you get the idea. Peace through superior firepower - I think that was a movie line. But I think the fanatics are a minority in any religion and most religious people do not blow up themselves or others. Another war will be over something more mundane, like insane world leaders, money, or land and resources, and not religion.
Alabama is located in the so called “bible belt” and belongs to the most religious and conservative states in the US. How’s the living there like in that matter? I usually think of the priests, who preach during some religious shows on TV, calling for miracles in exchange for money… something I really abhor. Are there any problems with the local morality defenders, who try to cancel the shows of death and black metal bands?
It is sad that some preachers use religion to rip off gullible people out of their money. For us, a band, I don't think it's really a problem. We aren't really on anyone's radar, and things have changed a lot since the burning of Twisted Sister and Quiet Riot records in the 1980s. Sure, when I was a kid growing up in Mississippi I was accused of being a devil worshipper and what-not, but as a grown man I'm not offended by someone else's beliefs. You can only be offended if you allow people to offend you. You can ignore it and live and let live and it has no impact on your life. I have had Christian friends, athiest friends, homosexual friends, transexual friends, black friends, whatever - none of it bothers me. It's more interesting to have a group of friends like that than people who are just like you and never challenge any of your assumptions. But we like it that it is conservative here - in the libertarian sense, not in the caricature portrayed by someone like Bill Maher, the straw man that he creates of backwoods redneck, bible thumpers, who hate the 'coloreds' and the 'homoseschuls'. I don't know anyone like that, and I know many people who would call themselves conservative or libertarian. I guess it is similar to letting a band school you on politics or religion - letting a comedian shape your opinion of a Republican candidate or a conservative ideology. Many lazy and ignorant people agree with and regurgitate liberal ideology here in the US because it grants them a semblance of intelligence, based on nothing more than conforming to the ideas of people who are perceived as being intelligent. Libertarians like freedom, limited government, and the right to bear arms, among other things. Since it's in the news here lately, I'll say that gun ownership for the citizens of the US is mainly for protection from criminals and a tyrannical government. It doesn't cause people to go on shooting rampages. Tyrannical governments use tragedies such as these to promote their cause and their ultimate goals - power and control.
While making this interview I just got hit by the news of the Denver massacre. Tell me what do you think of such things? What pushes people to commit such crimes?
I think the killer was a loser. He was in grad school and he was failing out. So his dream of being a world famous neuroscientist was crushed. He had nothing to fall back on. He wanted to be famous, so killing was the best means to an end. End of story. People with a brain disease that causes them to kill don't usually commit premeditated murder, as in "I will turn on my psychosis at the Batman premiere." I will say, that my theory on it is developed partly from personal experience. I went to grad school to be a world famous historian. I didn't fail, but in the end I didn't think a life of academia was for me. I dropped out after my first semester in a PhD program. I felt pretty bad though for awhile, like there was nothing else in life worth doing. Instead of going on a killing spree, I got much more serious about music, and here we are. The capability of murder exists in all of us, but you have a choice. A psychotherapist would say I've sublimated my need to kill, through becoming a death metal musician. As for that bitch made punk, it would have been better if he'd been shot in the face at the scene, because the trial will bring him the fame he desired.
OK, back to the musical aspects… I totally admire your guitar playing on both albums. I hardly say this, but man, it is incredible! Usually bands, which I listen to are old school and sort of primeval and so they don’t really care for technical aspects of their music so much, but I was truly impressed not just by the riffs, but mainly also by the incredibly intense nature of your death metal. What I love about both Chaos Inception CDs is that even though it is quite technical and complex in structures, it still sounds quite catchy, you managed to create a dark and eerie atmosphere, so there’s no feeling like I was just listening to a hundred of soulless riffs (something I really don’t like in bands like Cryptopsy) and wall of pointless noise. Your comment?
You get it! I'm happy that I was able to communicate with you. I feel exactly the same way about music, and what you described was exactly my intention. So, thank you. For me, there is something to like about every kind of metal, from technical to primitive. I try to use all of that in my own creations. There is also something to criticize about all forms of metal, and these things I try to rectify. I give everything I have to making our albums good, and good for all time.
Another thing is the lead playing of yours. Guitar solos are simply killer, some of the best I‘ve ever heard, along with Azaghoth, Sanders, Schuldiner, Rutan… I wonder how much time do you spend on practising and composing songs and leads like those from “The Abrogation”? What’s the most important for you while composing, what makes one riff or guitar lead better than the other? Are there any guitar players, who you would say have impressed and influenced you most, not necessarily in the death metal music?
Thanks again. I will not lie - I spent countless hours on the leads. At least 2 hours almost every day, for about 3 months, just writing them! I'd spend a week on one small section. I have a full notebook of solos for this album - at least 6 versions of each solo on each song. I used the best ones I had at the time. This is an issue, because to me, they are never good enough, and I will keep rewriting them up to the deadline. In fact, I almost re-recorded one after the album was mixed. But I basically used a simple standard for choosing the best one: is this lead 'setting it off'? It's something my brother used to talk about when we made music together when we were younger. He'd hear me do something on guitar and he'd shout, "That's going off!" I don't know. I kept that in mind after all these years. I hear a lot of guitarists in death metal who are technically much better than me. However, I think I have better influences than they do. I think Uli Roth, Joe Satriani, and Vinnie Moore in particular are gods. So, since I have studied those players, and not other guys, possibly newer guys, or specifically death metal guitar players, I see that as giving me an edge. I'd urge anyone to check out “Under a Dark Sky”, “The Extremist” and “Mind's Eye”, by the guitarists I mentioned.
Gary White also proves to be an excellent musician, he’s a real blastmaster, and I guess he’s probably one of the best drummers I’ve heard recently. Does he really has two arms only or maybe he’s sort of octopus with multiple arms? Is it his ability to blast what pushes you forward to play even faster tunes? But are there any limits of speed?
Gary is a big reason why I am the player I am, and why the band is successful. He is the best drummer I've played with - I hope I don't offend anyone else! He can do it all, not just blast. But that's what we do, so . . . He can blast much faster than I can pick on a guitar, and hopefully one day my picking will be as tight and as fast as his drumming. Trust me, it ain't. He's always on me about practicing more and this and that, but I'm like, Damn it, there is only so much I can do! I can't just practice one thing all day, because I have to write songs, and work on all aspects of guitar playing, not just speed. I guess we argue about it sometimes. But the limits of his speed are self-imposed, because he plays tight, and fast, and with duration. He doesn't blast at 280 bpm for 5 seconds - more like 250 bpm for 3 or 4 minutes. He won't play sloppy and he doesn't want to fix stuff in editing. So his playing and work ethic are a great motivating force.
I wonder how does Chaos Inception sound live? I mean your music is very tight, very intense, but also very technical, so is it a challenge to perform this material live? Are there any songs, which are exceptionally difficult to play and maybe even some parts, which you’re not able to perform exactly like you played them in the studio? I’m also curious if playing just one guitar is enough for such music as yours? Maybe adding a second guitarist would create a thicker and more brutal sound?
Having one guitar live is a challenge, but Cam just beefs up his bass tone with more gain and that helps fill in the void. The hardest part is going from grit-your-teeth, all-out, rhythmic assault, attack to a lighter touch with the solos. If you play the solos with that attack you end up having bad vibrato, missing notes, hitting open strings, and more. We usually play a little faster live. There's probably more off the rails playing, feedback, whammy noise, wah madness. One other problem is Gary and I are locked in, and he even follows my solos. So if I miss a few notes he will get lost. It's unfortunate, because I would like to improvise more live.
What is death metal to you? I said earlier that personally I don’t like too complex and over technical style, which is more like a show off of the musician’s skills rather than music to listen to and enjoy. I rather look for certain atmosphere and energy in music, that’s why I worship bands like Chaos Inception, Nile and at the same time old Entombed or Asphyx – even though they’re all completely different. But they all are death metal, so what is this music in your opinion? Are there any recently formed bands, which you’ve heard and bought their albums, which you’ve really enjoyed?
I see that we have similar outlooks and tastes. For me, it starts with the sound of the guitar. If it sounds like crap, I can't listen to it, no matter how good everything else is. Like the album, “Hell Awaits” - I can't listen to it. It sounds like it was recorded with the microphone in a trash can and the reverb on everything is on 10. I hate forced originality, and bands that completely change their sound. I think a band is a creation that has a life of its own once you have a few albums out, so the guys that change their band's sound totally are to me egomaniacs and live under the delusion that the fans just love them personally, no matter what they do. Also, when you rip off non-metal bands and use that in your metal, it doesn't make you an original metal band - you're trying too hard. Some of these bands are such posers, it makes me sick, but I won't call anyone out. I like anything that gives me a feeling and usually, if you think of it like a horror movie, it's not one of the big production, CGI movies. Most death metal fans are into horror movies, and I think the movies have influenced the music greatly. I get the some of the same feelings from both art forms. But if you compare the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre with the remake, for me it's similar to the difference between Von and a band like Watain. Von invokes a reaction with me, where Watain leaves me cold, though all the right ingredients are there. If I can give a sample of some of my favorite death and black metal bands, besides the obvious, I'd say Asphyx, Paradise Lost, Nocturnus, Blut Aus Nord, Von, Sarcofago, Death's first four albums, newer Darkthrone, Necrophobic, old Samael, Abcess, Kreator, Cryfemal, Malevolent Creation, Beherit . . . I guess none of those are new bands, but it's good that they still release albums.
After the release of “The Abrogation”, what are the current and future Chaos Inception plans? Are you going to tour or not at all and you would rather focus on composing new songs and will only play some local shows? Is it going to be difficult, while you have also some duties as a new member of Monstrosity? By the way, are you happy with the work of Lavadome so far?
We will do what we can as far as shows, but we have four members who have major responsibilities. Cam and Chris both run their own businesses. The economy is not good here, so you have to work harder to pay your bills than you did 4 years ago. From past experience, I know that self-promoted and booked US tours will lose money. They are fun, but usually you end up not reaching many fans anyways. Pick a city in the midwest and book a show there on a Sunday night - you can expect to play for the opening band and their girlfriends. Then they will ask for a free t-shirt and CD, just for being there. It’s very disheartening. I hear some people saying, oh, so they're in it for the money. That's hilarious, and completely ignorant. Bigger tours are mostly pay to play, so you can reach an audience but unless you are signed to Metal Blade or Relapse you will have to pay, and even then you are probably in debt to the label. If we could get on a tour that paid each of us $100 a day, plus covered our travel expenses we would probably do it, but that is way too much. But that is what the top bands are making, like Morbid Angel. I think Tony Norman was making $500 a week on tour with Morbid Angel. I'd probably trade my current day job for that, but it would be a pay cut, and a rough lifestyle. So I love metal as much as anyone, but I can’t and won't sacrifice my life for playing in bars across the country. The Monstrosity gig is fine, but I would have more money in my pocket if I stayed home and worked a minimum wage job. Trust me, no one does this for the money.
OK, sorry, but I’ll also ask for the plans of Monstrosity. I’ve been a fan of their early albums for a long time, such LPs as “Millennium” and “In Dark Purity” are classics and it’s been about five years since the release of their last LP (which I haven’t enjoyed so much, to be honest), so is there going to be a new album coming any time soon?
It's funny because being out on the road with them, most of the crowd is into the newer Monstrosity album. It just comes across better live. The older material, specifically the “Millenium” songs, doesn’t work as well live due to usual sound problems in small clubs - you just can't hear what is going on. But there is a new album almost written and will be recorded at the end of this year. We will tour next year, I believe in Europe, South America, and the US. I can't say much more than that, because I usually find out what is going on a week before it happens. But I have contributed songs to the new album and I have some collaborations with Lee Harrison, so I'm excited about that.
Tricky question now, but since you’re 35 and obviously you’re no longer a kid living with the parents, would you imagine earning with death metal enough to make for the living? Would a situation when Chaos Inception was giving you enough money for living be a comfortable, because you would be able to fully focus on the band or it would rather be more stressful, as you would have to record at least one album per year and play a bigger number of gigs, as well as sell more merchandise, so that would ruin all the spontaneity in the music?
I can't imagine that as a possibility. We just don't have enough of a fanbase now. As far as Chaos Inception - I'd say we spend $6000 per year on the band. We have never made a dime. Here's an example of how it goes: I printed 50 shirts for the last album. They cost $8.50 to make. I sold them at shows for $10. I gave some away for promo and to the band members and wore some myself. I lost money. We rent a rehearsal room year round for practicing and storing the gear. Lost money. We have to keep equipment in good shape. Loss. Drive to the gig. Loss. Printed sticker: Loss. And so on . . . We need to get an offer to do a bigger tour for something to happen. I'm not complaining - it's our choice to do this - I just want to convey some of the frustration we have when I'm asked about us not doing more and more.
Most bigger names have more going on than their band, and probably all of them have money coming in from part time jobs. Take Eric Rutan for instance. He's got a studio, does mixing, mastering, production, he's in Hate Eternal, with albums, and tours, he has music equipment endorsements. It takes all that and 24-7 total dedication. I have the utmost respect for that. But the famous people in death metal aren't making as much money as most fans think. You'd have to ask some of the bigger names in death metal - Cannibal Corpse or Black Dahlia Murder - what their personal income is. If I had to guess, I'd say it's less than twenty thousand dollars a year. You have to love the road lifestyle too, which I do not. I can't even find time to play guitar when I'm on the road. I don't know how they write an album with those deadlines, but I think they'd be much better albums if they didn't have to crank them out like that.
People like Shagrath and Nergal became real celebrities in their countries. Do you think it is good or not for the metal music? I mean from one hand there may be more people who listen to their bands, but from the other metal loses some of its elitism and probably 50% of those new listeners do not feel this music at all and are not passionate for it, so in 12 months they’ll probably even forget about it. Besides, metal was a synonymous for rebellions, so what happens if it becomes more publically accessible and tolerated?
To me, metal was about the sound rather than the statement. Maybe the sound is the statement as well but, as far as rebellion, rebellion from what? There has to be something to rebel against, and then you have let yourself be defined as 'Anti' - you rely on someone else for your identity. That kind of music for rebellion idea leads to some very bad music - I'm thinking of some of the worst forms of black metal one-man projects,
like Abruptum and Emit, or something like the No-Wave punk movement in the 1970s in New York. The music is unlistenable and the message of total rebellion is juvenile - you get crap like lyrics sung in gibberish, people who don't tune their instruments, can't play, and some types of idiotic performance art, like popping zits in front of a mirror onstage - some band was actually doing that, and there were critics on hand to tell them they were geniuses. Yeah, look into that No-Wave movement for more examples. Anyways, I think it is great that Nergal and Shagrath are celebrities. If I could compare it to horror movies again, think of Nergal as a horror movie actor or director. Who gets upset if those movie people are famous as long as they keep doing good work? Why is it required that a death metal musician believe in the literal existence of their subject matter, when it doesn't matter if a movie director believes in the literal existence of the storyline. That is not the definition of a poser - a musician with a song about demons, who doesn't literally believe in them. Nobody ever called Iron Maiden posers, but if Nergal is successful and has a hot girlfriend, and money, and goes to the Grammy's he's a poser, because he's not sitting at home in the ritual chamber, chanting to the Ancient Ones and bleeding for the devil? I know this is not exactly what you asked, but I think there are too many fans in the underground who think like that. People who are obsessed with death and black metal have some different beliefs, sure, but Nergal can't be Nergal all day, every day. It's like a guy from Gwar being that character all day, everyday. He's really Joey Smothers, or whatever, and he grew up, and his mom changed his diapers, and he went through puberty, and lost his virginity, and he loves his nieces and nephews, and he cried when he saw E.T. - in other words, people in death metal bands are human beings, so cut them a break sometimes. They are musicians, not criminally insane psychos, for the most part - no matter how much they pretend to be in interviews. But regardless, good metal, the stuff I like, will rarely be tolerated. So if their music is tolerated by mainstream people, then it probably sucks, like Metallica's black album.
And that was my final question. Thank you Matt for your answers, hopefully everything will go well and Chaos Inception will crush as many maniacs as it’s possible, getting the right recognition! Cheers!
Thanks for the great questions. It was a nice break from the usual interview. I'm glad that you enjoy and understand our music. Thanks for spreading the word.
Fleshtized were pretty much the best death metal band in Alabama in the early 2000s. Their musicianship couldn't be touched. I think back in the day members, Gary, Garth Lovvorn, and Casey Robertson, had several offers to join other bands - Nile, Angel Corpse, and Incantation, to name a few. I think even Decrepit Birth. Anyways, I wasn't in the band during the heyday, but joined at a later time. Judging from the stories I heard, the problem was the clash of personalities. All the guys get along now, now that they are older and more mature, yet they couldn't keep the band going. The album is a forgotten classic. I know that there have been more repressings of the album, which have kept it in circulation, though the band has never seen a dime from it. When I was in the band there were more lineup difficulties, this time being all the members except for Gary and I lived in different states. So when we decided to do Chaos Inception, the idea was to get some local guys and do something in the same vein, yet without having to live up to the legacy of Fleshtized. I didn't want to get boxed in to trying to write songs like Fleshtized or trying to play solos like Casey Robertson, who was an insane shredder, way beyond my comprehension. He had that Rusty Cooley / Paul Gilbert style, extremely fast, precise, and alien sounding. I play more traditionally, based on my influences and to be honest, I just can't play that fast. I've tried, only to have my fingers and wrists so sore that I couldn't play for a week or so.
It took few years, before you and Gary White formed Chaos Inception. Weren’t you afraid to start everything from the scratch, maybe it would be better to join an already respected band, like you did when you recently joined Monstrosity? How have you found the rest of Chaos Inception members? Were they your obvious choices or matter of coincidence?
There is a problem with joining an already established band, and that is writing in an already established style. Since I knew I was going to write most of the Chaos Inception material, I wanted a clean slate. The rest of the guys were nearly the only people available in the area, though they have worked out beautifully. Chris White, our vocalist, was a keyboard player and guitarist for Blood Stained Dusk, though he also did vocals. It was new for
him to be a frontman, and the main vocalist. Cam was a guitarist and drummer for Spinecast, and this was the first time he played bass. But they were our friends from way back, plus they had the right influences. We get asked by some to join the band from time to time, but they always have the wrong influences. Never heard of Kreator? Next!“Chaos Inception is dedicated to the destruction and recreation of the current death metal paradigm, and a return the true spirit of the Ancient Gods brought to light by the vision quests of its progenitors.” What do you mean by that? What’s so wrong about the nowadays death metal? Personally I feel like this genre is in the best condition since the early 90’s!
Yeah, it's in pretty good shape. Well, you know you need to make a bold statement when you're promoting your own stuff! To be honest, that was written awhile back, when we had no content on our Facebook page. So, the destruction and recreation of the paradigm - no, but of our former band Fleshtized - yes. I find a lot of newer bands have the same production sound and the same vocal style, but that's just mall metal, not underground stuff. The underground is doing fine.
Chaos Inception has never put any demos and you went straight to do a full length album. Was the material for “Collision with Oblivion” all brand new or maybe there were some riffs or fragments, which were intended to be used for Fleshtized?
We recorded a 5 song demo for Fleshtized that "Regicide" was on, fully completed. The other songs on that demo were pretty good too, but they had some Fleshtized in them so we never redid them. We were confident in our skills that we decided to do the album and then shop it as a demo. Luckily, we were signed based off a live show, by Brutalized Records. We did record a version of “Collision with Oblivion” to send to Ricardo, and we ended up redoing it for the album.
As you said, “Collision with Oblivion” was released by Brutalized Productions. I must admit that I’ve never heard of Chaos Inception until Lavadome started to announce your second CD, so I must ask if Brutalized did any good job with promoting your debut? I have a feeling like they screw it up completely or maybe I’m wrong and you’re quite happy with them? I managed to find a second hand copy of “Collision with Oblivion” and buy it for ridiculously low price, which is cool, but is this album available anywhere at all?
I think most of the remaining copies of the first album are at the Deathgasm Records warehouse. Of course, we are getting a lot more press and reviews with this album, working with Jan. I think Brutalized just wasn't as good at reaching a worldwide market. We have many fans and friends in South America thanks to Ricardo and Brutalized so we have nothing negative to say about them. But it does take some investment to get the w
ord out, and perhaps Brutalized fell short on that front. They took a chance on an unknown band, so we give them a lot of thanks for that. Finally the second album has been released and I must say that “The Abrogation” is just a crusher. I totally enjoyed it; it definitely is one of the best and most intense albums, which I’ve heard lately. Do you feel pleased with the effect you got on it, as well as with the feedback, which this album gets so far?
Yeah, we're excited about it. Some of the novelty has worn off. I was psyched to get some of the good reviews at first, and pissed about the bad ones, but now I don't really read them or pay attention. We are our own worst critics and at the same time, our own biggest fans. I think the first side of “The Abrogation” is flawless, compared to other albums I buy. However, on bad days, I can't even stand to listen to it! It's always been like this with every release I've played on. It's a love / hate thing. It's never exactly what I tried to create out of my imagination. But we are getting closer.
Comparing both albums, “The Abrogation” is definitely more mature, the production and the mix are better, but from the other hand both albums have a lot in common and the second CD is a natural continuation of the debut. How do you feel about the evolution between both full lengths? What are the most obvious things for you, as a musician, that have been improved or developed?
Two years passed and I play guitar every day so I have improved on that front. Some of the leads on “Collision with Oblivion”, I can't even listen to them. What was I thinking?! Mostly I was thinking that I had to play a bunch of notes, whereas on this one I didn't care if there were as many notes - even though there are still a bunch of notes. I improved my guitar tone, which is always a big factor, and I'm always experimenting to improve it even more. In fact, I just got some new speakers in the mail today to put in one of my Mesa cabinets. Other than that, I feel we have an identity as a band, and I think both albums will contain some of our greatest 'hits' when it's all said and done. In actuality though, there were more problems in the studio with “The Abrogation” and we rushed the recording somewhat. But we had more experience this time, and were able to overcome all the difficulties.
Speaking of the title of the album, it’s about the abrogation of what…? Is it about the cancellation of religions and dogmas for instance? Tell me also something about that killer artwork on the front. I must say that it looks very impressive. What idea stands behind it, especially when confronting it with the title of the album?
I think of it as the abrogation of the flesh, because maybe it is a hindrance and the source of sickness and death. But that's just an answer I'd give you at this moment. When you are in the business of kicking ass, there is friendly competition involved. You want your able to destroy the albums of other bands, better known bands, and kick ass that much harder - so it is also the abrogation of the competition. Chris White came up with the title. The bottom line is it sounds like a death metal album, so I thought, sure, why not? Many things on the album, down to the cover, the titles, the band photo, is to indicate to someone what they should expect if they buy the album.
If I saw a CD with songs called “Lunatic Necromancy” and “Scald Command”, I'd be all over it. That's my style, as opposed to a CD with songs like "Walking in the Woods of Transylvania" or "Engorged in Excrement". So, the music itself is what I'm focused on and I'm sorry to disappoint for not having a more profound explanation of that particular title.Do you think that people still read and care about the lyrics of the bands? I’m asking this, as nowadays many, many people (and I deliberately won’t call them fans) just suck the cocks of mp3, do not collect records anymore and are just fine having the soulless music files. In that case they don’t probably care about the fancy artworks and probably also about the lyrics… But personally I always like the bands, which still care a lot about every detail of their records, because there are some maniacs like myself, who still love to collect records, read the lyrics etc. What’s your opinion on this?
I'm definitely not one of those mp3 guys. I think the cover and the lyrics are important, and I only buy an mp3 of something where the CD would cost me $30 or more. I read band's lyrics, but I can't remember liking many bands lyrics lately, unless it's like Krisiun or Perdition Temple - something totally off the rails. But our lyrics are not so much as to convey deep meanings - I never look to musicians for deep meanings, or political views, and bands that spout that mostly annoy me. I'd rather read a book on those topics, by someone who's done some research. For me the lyrics are more in the sense of an Iron Maiden album, where the music and lyrics fit together. Like “The Rime of the Ancient Mariner”. Nocturnus is an influence here as well. That's why I put titles for my solos. The solos aren't supposed to be wankery, but are supposed to fit the songs, lyrically and musically. I think about what the sound makes me picture, then the lyrics come, and then harmonies and leads match the lyrics and the rest of it. It is just one method of getting more inspiration for songwriting. I don't like MP3s as much because I can't get my Ipod to play the album in order, and I listen to whole albums. My formative years were the time of cassette tapes. So there is an obvious reference to that indicated by the 2 'sides' of our CD as well as the track listing.
Why do you think people still need religions? I mean they keep praying, even though no one has ever answered them. They still believe that god is merciful, even though there’s so much misery and cruelty going on in the world and if everything happens to his will, then it means he’s the most vicious motherfucker ever. Isn’t it weird?
Personally, I think it's because life is hard and the flesh really is weak. Science holds no answers for me on this issue. Science can't tell you what death is or what anything really means - to science death is a flatline on a brain wave or heart monitor and no more, although many have died and have been brought back and have had an experience of something. What's the old saying about there being no athiests in the trenches or on the frontlines? I don't have any answers for anyone. If anyone has questions about the 'problem of evil' I'd refer them to Leibniz and other philosophers, not to “The Abrogation” or metal album's lyrics.
What do you think of the religious fanaticism? With people, who blow themselves up, just to kill some others or whatever, I sometimes wonder where will it all end? Is there a religious war coming, most likely the Islamic nations against the Eastern civilisations?
I hope it doesn't come to that, but I don't think Iran should be allowed to have nuclear capabilities. I've heard some say that the UN or the US shouldn't be the world police and it's none of our business, and the US or other nations have nuclear weapons so why not others, but the fact is, I live in the US, Iran is known to be anti-US and Israel, so why should they be allowed to be armed as equally? If you were at a club, and you knew a guy was going to jump you in the parking lot, would you send a messenger to tell him that you had a knife, and you wouldn't go outside until he armed himself with one, so it would be more fair? It's not a perfect analogy but you get the idea. Peace through superior firepower - I think that was a movie line. But I think the fanatics are a minority in any religion and most religious people do not blow up themselves or others. Another war will be over something more mundane, like insane world leaders, money, or land and resources, and not religion.
Alabama is located in the so called “bible belt” and belongs to the most religious and conservative states in the US. How’s the living there like in that matter? I usually think of the priests, who preach during some religious shows on TV, calling for miracles in exchange for money… something I really abhor. Are there any problems with the local morality defenders, who try to cancel the shows of death and black metal bands?
It is sad that some preachers use religion to rip off gullible people out of their money. For us, a band, I don't think it's really a problem. We aren't really on anyone's radar, and things have changed a lot since the burning of Twisted Sister and Quiet Riot records in the 1980s. Sure, when I was a kid growing up in Mississippi I was accused of being a devil worshipper and what-not, but as a grown man I'm not offended by someone else's beliefs. You can only be offended if you allow people to offend you. You can ignore it and live and let live and it has no impact on your life. I have had Christian friends, athiest friends, homosexual friends, transexual friends, black friends, whatever - none of it bothers me. It's more interesting to have a group of friends like that than people who are just like you and never challenge any of your assumptions. But we like it that it is conservative here - in the libertarian sense, not in the caricature portrayed by someone like Bill Maher, the straw man that he creates of backwoods redneck, bible thumpers, who hate the 'coloreds' and the 'homoseschuls'. I don't know anyone like that, and I know many people who would call themselves conservative or libertarian. I guess it is similar to letting a band school you on politics or religion - letting a comedian shape your opinion of a Republican candidate or a conservative ideology. Many lazy and ignorant people agree with and regurgitate liberal ideology here in the US because it grants them a semblance of intelligence, based on nothing more than conforming to the ideas of people who are perceived as being intelligent. Libertarians like freedom, limited government, and the right to bear arms, among other things. Since it's in the news here lately, I'll say that gun ownership for the citizens of the US is mainly for protection from criminals and a tyrannical government. It doesn't cause people to go on shooting rampages. Tyrannical governments use tragedies such as these to promote their cause and their ultimate goals - power and control.
While making this interview I just got hit by the news of the Denver massacre. Tell me what do you think of such things? What pushes people to commit such crimes?I think the killer was a loser. He was in grad school and he was failing out. So his dream of being a world famous neuroscientist was crushed. He had nothing to fall back on. He wanted to be famous, so killing was the best means to an end. End of story. People with a brain disease that causes them to kill don't usually commit premeditated murder, as in "I will turn on my psychosis at the Batman premiere." I will say, that my theory on it is developed partly from personal experience. I went to grad school to be a world famous historian. I didn't fail, but in the end I didn't think a life of academia was for me. I dropped out after my first semester in a PhD program. I felt pretty bad though for awhile, like there was nothing else in life worth doing. Instead of going on a killing spree, I got much more serious about music, and here we are. The capability of murder exists in all of us, but you have a choice. A psychotherapist would say I've sublimated my need to kill, through becoming a death metal musician. As for that bitch made punk, it would have been better if he'd been shot in the face at the scene, because the trial will bring him the fame he desired.
OK, back to the musical aspects… I totally admire your guitar playing on both albums. I hardly say this, but man, it is incredible! Usually bands, which I listen to are old school and sort of primeval and so they don’t really care for technical aspects of their music so much, but I was truly impressed not just by the riffs, but mainly also by the incredibly intense nature of your death metal. What I love about both Chaos Inception CDs is that even though it is quite technical and complex in structures, it still sounds quite catchy, you managed to create a dark and eerie atmosphere, so there’s no feeling like I was just listening to a hundred of soulless riffs (something I really don’t like in bands like Cryptopsy) and wall of pointless noise. Your comment?
You get it! I'm happy that I was able to communicate with you. I feel exactly the same way about music, and what you described was exactly my intention. So, thank you. For me, there is something to like about every kind of metal, from technical to primitive. I try to use all of that in my own creations. There is also something to criticize about all forms of metal, and these things I try to rectify. I give everything I have to making our albums good, and good for all time.
Another thing is the lead playing of yours. Guitar solos are simply killer, some of the best I‘ve ever heard, along with Azaghoth, Sanders, Schuldiner, Rutan… I wonder how much time do you spend on practising and composing songs and leads like those from “The Abrogation”? What’s the most important for you while composing, what makes one riff or guitar lead better than the other? Are there any guitar players, who you would say have impressed and influenced you most, not necessarily in the death metal music?
Thanks again. I will not lie - I spent countless hours on the leads. At least 2 hours almost every day, for about 3 months, just writing them! I'd spend a week on one small section. I have a full notebook of solos for this album - at least 6 versions of each solo on each song. I used the best ones I had at the time. This is an issue, because to me, they are never good enough, and I will keep rewriting them up to the deadline. In fact, I almost re-recorded one after the album was mixed. But I basically used a simple standard for choosing the best one: is this lead 'setting it off'? It's something my brother used to talk about when we made music together when we were younger. He'd hear me do something on guitar and he'd shout, "That's going off!" I don't know. I kept that in mind after all these years. I hear a lot of guitarists in death metal who are technically much better than me. However, I think I have better influences than they do. I think Uli Roth, Joe Satriani, and Vinnie Moore in particular are gods. So, since I have studied those players, and not other guys, possibly newer guys, or specifically death metal guitar players, I see that as giving me an edge. I'd urge anyone to check out “Under a Dark Sky”, “The Extremist” and “Mind's Eye”, by the guitarists I mentioned.
Gary White also proves to be an excellent musician, he’s a real blastmaster, and I guess he’s probably one of the best drummers I’ve heard recently. Does he really has two arms only or maybe he’s sort of octopus with multiple arms? Is it his ability to blast what pushes you forward to play even faster tunes? But are there any limits of speed?
Gary is a big reason why I am the player I am, and why the band is successful. He is the best drummer I've played with - I hope I don't offend anyone else! He can do it all, not just blast. But that's what we do, so . . . He can blast much faster than I can pick on a guitar, and hopefully one day my picking will be as tight and as fast as his drumming. Trust me, it ain't. He's always on me about practicing more and this and that, but I'm like, Damn it, there is only so much I can do! I can't just practice one thing all day, because I have to write songs, and work on all aspects of guitar playing, not just speed. I guess we argue about it sometimes. But the limits of his speed are self-imposed, because he plays tight, and fast, and with duration. He doesn't blast at 280 bpm for 5 seconds - more like 250 bpm for 3 or 4 minutes. He won't play sloppy and he doesn't want to fix stuff in editing. So his playing and work ethic are a great motivating force.
I wonder how does Chaos Inception sound live? I mean your music is very tight, very intense, but also very technical, so is it a challenge to perform this material live? Are there any songs, which are exceptionally difficult to play and maybe even some parts, which you’re not able to perform exactly like you played them in the studio? I’m also curious if playing just one guitar is enough for such music as yours? Maybe adding a second guitarist would create a thicker and more brutal sound?
Having one guitar live is a challenge, but Cam just beefs up his bass tone with more gain and that helps fill in the void. The hardest part is going from grit-your-teeth, all-out, rhythmic assault, attack to a lighter touch with the solos. If you play the solos with that attack you end up having bad vibrato, missing notes, hitting open strings, and more. We usually play a little faster live. There's probably more off the rails playing, feedback, whammy noise, wah madness. One other problem is Gary and I are locked in, and he even follows my solos. So if I miss a few notes he will get lost. It's unfortunate, because I would like to improvise more live.
What is death metal to you? I said earlier that personally I don’t like too complex and over technical style, which is more like a show off of the musician’s skills rather than music to listen to and enjoy. I rather look for certain atmosphere and energy in music, that’s why I worship bands like Chaos Inception, Nile and at the same time old Entombed or Asphyx – even though they’re all completely different. But they all are death metal, so what is this music in your opinion? Are there any recently formed bands, which you’ve heard and bought their albums, which you’ve really enjoyed?
I see that we have similar outlooks and tastes. For me, it starts with the sound of the guitar. If it sounds like crap, I can't listen to it, no matter how good everything else is. Like the album, “Hell Awaits” - I can't listen to it. It sounds like it was recorded with the microphone in a trash can and the reverb on everything is on 10. I hate forced originality, and bands that completely change their sound. I think a band is a creation that has a life of its own once you have a few albums out, so the guys that change their band's sound totally are to me egomaniacs and live under the delusion that the fans just love them personally, no matter what they do. Also, when you rip off non-metal bands and use that in your metal, it doesn't make you an original metal band - you're trying too hard. Some of these bands are such posers, it makes me sick, but I won't call anyone out. I like anything that gives me a feeling and usually, if you think of it like a horror movie, it's not one of the big production, CGI movies. Most death metal fans are into horror movies, and I think the movies have influenced the music greatly. I get the some of the same feelings from both art forms. But if you compare the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre with the remake, for me it's similar to the difference between Von and a band like Watain. Von invokes a reaction with me, where Watain leaves me cold, though all the right ingredients are there. If I can give a sample of some of my favorite death and black metal bands, besides the obvious, I'd say Asphyx, Paradise Lost, Nocturnus, Blut Aus Nord, Von, Sarcofago, Death's first four albums, newer Darkthrone, Necrophobic, old Samael, Abcess, Kreator, Cryfemal, Malevolent Creation, Beherit . . . I guess none of those are new bands, but it's good that they still release albums.
After the release of “The Abrogation”, what are the current and future Chaos Inception plans? Are you going to tour or not at all and you would rather focus on composing new songs and will only play some local shows? Is it going to be difficult, while you have also some duties as a new member of Monstrosity? By the way, are you happy with the work of Lavadome so far?We will do what we can as far as shows, but we have four members who have major responsibilities. Cam and Chris both run their own businesses. The economy is not good here, so you have to work harder to pay your bills than you did 4 years ago. From past experience, I know that self-promoted and booked US tours will lose money. They are fun, but usually you end up not reaching many fans anyways. Pick a city in the midwest and book a show there on a Sunday night - you can expect to play for the opening band and their girlfriends. Then they will ask for a free t-shirt and CD, just for being there. It’s very disheartening. I hear some people saying, oh, so they're in it for the money. That's hilarious, and completely ignorant. Bigger tours are mostly pay to play, so you can reach an audience but unless you are signed to Metal Blade or Relapse you will have to pay, and even then you are probably in debt to the label. If we could get on a tour that paid each of us $100 a day, plus covered our travel expenses we would probably do it, but that is way too much. But that is what the top bands are making, like Morbid Angel. I think Tony Norman was making $500 a week on tour with Morbid Angel. I'd probably trade my current day job for that, but it would be a pay cut, and a rough lifestyle. So I love metal as much as anyone, but I can’t and won't sacrifice my life for playing in bars across the country. The Monstrosity gig is fine, but I would have more money in my pocket if I stayed home and worked a minimum wage job. Trust me, no one does this for the money.
OK, sorry, but I’ll also ask for the plans of Monstrosity. I’ve been a fan of their early albums for a long time, such LPs as “Millennium” and “In Dark Purity” are classics and it’s been about five years since the release of their last LP (which I haven’t enjoyed so much, to be honest), so is there going to be a new album coming any time soon?
It's funny because being out on the road with them, most of the crowd is into the newer Monstrosity album. It just comes across better live. The older material, specifically the “Millenium” songs, doesn’t work as well live due to usual sound problems in small clubs - you just can't hear what is going on. But there is a new album almost written and will be recorded at the end of this year. We will tour next year, I believe in Europe, South America, and the US. I can't say much more than that, because I usually find out what is going on a week before it happens. But I have contributed songs to the new album and I have some collaborations with Lee Harrison, so I'm excited about that.
Tricky question now, but since you’re 35 and obviously you’re no longer a kid living with the parents, would you imagine earning with death metal enough to make for the living? Would a situation when Chaos Inception was giving you enough money for living be a comfortable, because you would be able to fully focus on the band or it would rather be more stressful, as you would have to record at least one album per year and play a bigger number of gigs, as well as sell more merchandise, so that would ruin all the spontaneity in the music?
I can't imagine that as a possibility. We just don't have enough of a fanbase now. As far as Chaos Inception - I'd say we spend $6000 per year on the band. We have never made a dime. Here's an example of how it goes: I printed 50 shirts for the last album. They cost $8.50 to make. I sold them at shows for $10. I gave some away for promo and to the band members and wore some myself. I lost money. We rent a rehearsal room year round for practicing and storing the gear. Lost money. We have to keep equipment in good shape. Loss. Drive to the gig. Loss. Printed sticker: Loss. And so on . . . We need to get an offer to do a bigger tour for something to happen. I'm not complaining - it's our choice to do this - I just want to convey some of the frustration we have when I'm asked about us not doing more and more.
Most bigger names have more going on than their band, and probably all of them have money coming in from part time jobs. Take Eric Rutan for instance. He's got a studio, does mixing, mastering, production, he's in Hate Eternal, with albums, and tours, he has music equipment endorsements. It takes all that and 24-7 total dedication. I have the utmost respect for that. But the famous people in death metal aren't making as much money as most fans think. You'd have to ask some of the bigger names in death metal - Cannibal Corpse or Black Dahlia Murder - what their personal income is. If I had to guess, I'd say it's less than twenty thousand dollars a year. You have to love the road lifestyle too, which I do not. I can't even find time to play guitar when I'm on the road. I don't know how they write an album with those deadlines, but I think they'd be much better albums if they didn't have to crank them out like that.
People like Shagrath and Nergal became real celebrities in their countries. Do you think it is good or not for the metal music? I mean from one hand there may be more people who listen to their bands, but from the other metal loses some of its elitism and probably 50% of those new listeners do not feel this music at all and are not passionate for it, so in 12 months they’ll probably even forget about it. Besides, metal was a synonymous for rebellions, so what happens if it becomes more publically accessible and tolerated?
To me, metal was about the sound rather than the statement. Maybe the sound is the statement as well but, as far as rebellion, rebellion from what? There has to be something to rebel against, and then you have let yourself be defined as 'Anti' - you rely on someone else for your identity. That kind of music for rebellion idea leads to some very bad music - I'm thinking of some of the worst forms of black metal one-man projects,
like Abruptum and Emit, or something like the No-Wave punk movement in the 1970s in New York. The music is unlistenable and the message of total rebellion is juvenile - you get crap like lyrics sung in gibberish, people who don't tune their instruments, can't play, and some types of idiotic performance art, like popping zits in front of a mirror onstage - some band was actually doing that, and there were critics on hand to tell them they were geniuses. Yeah, look into that No-Wave movement for more examples. Anyways, I think it is great that Nergal and Shagrath are celebrities. If I could compare it to horror movies again, think of Nergal as a horror movie actor or director. Who gets upset if those movie people are famous as long as they keep doing good work? Why is it required that a death metal musician believe in the literal existence of their subject matter, when it doesn't matter if a movie director believes in the literal existence of the storyline. That is not the definition of a poser - a musician with a song about demons, who doesn't literally believe in them. Nobody ever called Iron Maiden posers, but if Nergal is successful and has a hot girlfriend, and money, and goes to the Grammy's he's a poser, because he's not sitting at home in the ritual chamber, chanting to the Ancient Ones and bleeding for the devil? I know this is not exactly what you asked, but I think there are too many fans in the underground who think like that. People who are obsessed with death and black metal have some different beliefs, sure, but Nergal can't be Nergal all day, every day. It's like a guy from Gwar being that character all day, everyday. He's really Joey Smothers, or whatever, and he grew up, and his mom changed his diapers, and he went through puberty, and lost his virginity, and he loves his nieces and nephews, and he cried when he saw E.T. - in other words, people in death metal bands are human beings, so cut them a break sometimes. They are musicians, not criminally insane psychos, for the most part - no matter how much they pretend to be in interviews. But regardless, good metal, the stuff I like, will rarely be tolerated. So if their music is tolerated by mainstream people, then it probably sucks, like Metallica's black album. And that was my final question. Thank you Matt for your answers, hopefully everything will go well and Chaos Inception will crush as many maniacs as it’s possible, getting the right recognition! Cheers!
Thanks for the great questions. It was a nice break from the usual interview. I'm glad that you enjoy and understand our music. Thanks for spreading the word.
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